[GNU-linux-libre] Hyperbola evaluation

[Jean Louis]

Because they are not under Free Culture licences, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_Free_Cultural_Works
No need to re-go through the arguments, the FSF simple don't believe
that all their (or anyone else's) works should be under Free Culture
licences and it is isn't a requirement of the FSDG. Ask the FSF if you
don't believe me.

As Hyperbola states here on:
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:social_contract

Hyperbola is free culture: All documentation and
cultural works included in Hyperbola are free
culture, with the exceptions of: works stating a
viewpoint, invariant sections and cover texts. All
documentation and cultural works created by or for
Hyperbola are free culture, with no exceptions.

They do accept works stating a viewpoint as
exception and invariant sections and cover texts
as exceptions.

So they are very specific about it, and that is
fine to me to be accepted as fully free GNU system
distribution.

And it is part of universal agreement that my
opinions are my opinions and that nobody shall put
their words in my mouth, rather make up their own
opinions, so I do not see a point for free culture
movement to claim that even opinions of other
people shall be modifiable... it is a joke.

Jean Louis

[Jean Louis]

For clarity and as bill-auger suggested, please continue the discussion to
Hyperbola: Other "Information for practical use" under a free license
thread.
I already copied your comments on Top of the description of the criteria.

# Other "Information for practical use" under a free license
NOTES: Hyperbola contains in the amendments "Hyperbola is free software"
and "Hyperbola is free culture" from its social contract [1] the commitment
to not include or recommend non-free software or documentation.

If Hyperbola is Free Culture then it won't be including the Emacs manual
nor the GCC manual nor anything else under GFDL with "invariant sections".
For more information see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-culture_movement#Skepticism_from_the_FSF

In that sense, with respect to opinions, I do not
see why Hyperbola cannot be free culture and
include the Emacs Manual and GCC manual and GFDL
with invariant sections.

Because they are not under Free Culture licences, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_Free_Cultural_Works
No need to re-go through the arguments, the FSF simple don't believe
that all their (or anyone else's) works should be under Free Culture
licences and it is isn't a requirement of the FSDG. Ask the FSF if you
don't believe me.

Hyperbola is a distribution, and to me it looks
that they are using the term "free culture" that
is not same as what you are referring to.

Citing from:
https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:social_contract

Hyperbola is free culture: All documentation and
cultural works included in Hyperbola are free
culture, with the exceptions of: works stating a
viewpoint, invariant sections and cover texts. All
documentation and cultural works created by or for
Hyperbola are free culture, with no exceptions.

So that means they have exceptions and are fine
with the invariant sections, and that should not
be a problem to be accepted as a fully free GNU
system distribution. So they are pretty specific
on what they mean and want.

A term "free culture" may mean something different
in a different context. And in that context on
Hyperbola page it means that they are free culture
with respect to viewpoints and invariant sections
so that GNU FDL may be fully accepted.

Very nice Hyperbola, avanti!

Jean

[Michael Dorrington]

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[Benoît]

there is no expected format fir discussions as such - all of the
formalities are embodied on the "Incoming Distros" wiki - anything that
is not described there is open for discussion

Perfect, thanks for the clarification

one thing i did not expect is so much information at once - maybe it
would be most useful to take each criteria item as a separate thread
"Hyperbola: No name confusion" and "Hyperbola: Avoids propaganda" and so
on - that is how i expected they would probably come along one by one
over time and that each of these items would take some time and
discussion - you did good though, there is a lot of good starting
information here

It is a good idea & you are right. I have installed it and worked on it
almost full time for the last 3 days this is the reason I have been able
to test all of this at once.

One thread per criteria is definitely a good idea! I will start with one
only then we can have a better clarity, excuse me for the confusion on
my first attempt.

judging from the past, it has taken a very long time for each distro to
be approved - right now there are already 2 ahead of hyperbola - even if
the hyperbola review were completed today, it could still be a year or
more before the FSF starts their internal review - there is little
chance of another jumping ahead of hyperbola so there is no reason to
move quickly with any of these
you may need to be extra patient at this particular moment in time
because right now, the group is a somewhat of a lull - i think that most
people at this time, including myself, are suspending their
participation; while awaiting "with bated breath" a uniform decision
regarding the connochaetos and pureos kernels

Let's see how we can progress criteria per criteria, working like you
suggested is good as we can have "checkpoint" and progress slowly but
strongly :)

[Benoît]

Oups,

I forgot to put the [16], just opened it:

16. https://issues.hyperbola.info/index.php?do=details&task_id=733

Here is my first review for 6 points, please don't hesitate to comment
as it is the first time for me and I am not 100% familiar of the format
and details you are waiting for.
To simplify the readability I have put all the links at the end with the
corresponding references.
# No name confusion
NOTES: Hyperbola contains this topic in the amendment "Hyperbola and
name confusion" from its social contract [1]
From the wiki, Hyperbola is avoiding name confusion, such as not
including the name “Linux” ambiguously in its projects. There is
another topic in Hyperbola website which talks about
"nomenclature" and the naming of Hyperbola is also addressed [2]
# Programs commonly known to have freedom issues are liberated or excluded
NOTES: Hyperbola contains a blacklist [3] where all packages listed of
software that does not respect the Free System Distribution
Guidelines [4] were liberated or excluded from its repos.
# All software under a free license with source code provided
NOTES: Hyperbola contains repos [5] for testing [6] and stable [7] plus
a git repository [8] to provide the source code of the packages.
# Does not encourage users to use or install non-free software
NOTES: Hyperbola includes 'your-freedom', a package that conflicts with
non-free package to ensure the system is free. If I try to install a
non-free package the only way is to uninstall
"your-freedom" and deliberately renounce keeping the system out
of non-free software. Hyperbola also maintains a blacklist [3] that
explains why certain
packages from Arch are blacklisted and removed from the Hyperbola repos.
# Avoids repeating propaganda or creating confusion
NOTES: There is no "words to avoid" from [9] in any of Hyperbola
website, page or documentation with two exceptions. This has been checked
with "grepping" all the "words to avoid" into the Hyperbola website
and individual web pages. "Commercial" is mentioned here [10] and is
used in a context of commercial
world not only for software purpose. I don't know if this has to be
considered as an issue as it mentioned "Please don't use “commercial” as
a synonym for “nonfree.”" "Production" is also mentioned here [10],
"Product" is in the list of
"words-to-avoid", again this is used in the context of "Production servers"
to mention a server running 24/24.
# Other "Information for practical use" under a free license
NOTES: Hyperbola contains in the amendments "Hyperbola is free software"
and "Hyperbola is free culture" from its social contract [1] the commitment
to not include or recommend non-free software or documentation.
All packages contain its own source packages and liberated tarballs available
from [5], [6] & [7] & a git repository [8].
All documentation available from the wiki [11] contains its own source
clicking in "Show pagesource" option and all website articles sources are
available in [12].
The SVG logos [13] & [14] include http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
license but I have to open each individual files to check, I don't find a
licence file in the directory, I found them in the git repository [15]
I don't know if this is an issue.
For the PNG file, I am unable to find the licence so I have opened a
Freedom Issue case [16] and I will monitor for how long this will be fixed.
After installing the browser from Hyperbola (iceweasel-esr) this don't
contain DRM support, EME, Telemetry or non-free Add-ons.
It is confirmed by [17] and [18]
Hyperbola contains libretools [19] a package with programs for Hyperbola
development that is used to build the entire distro.
References
1. https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:social_contract
2. https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:nomenclatures
3. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/software/blacklist.git/tree
4. https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines
5. https://repo.hyperbola.info:50000
6. https://repo.hyperbola.info:50011/gnu-plus-linux-libre/testing/sources
7. https://repo.hyperbola.info:50012/gnu-plus-linux-libre/stable/sources
8. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100
9. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html
10. https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:start#how_hyperbola_stability_works
11. https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:start&redirect=1
12. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/services/hyperweb.git
13. https://repo.hyperbola.info:50000/other/logotypes
14. https://repo.hyperbola.info:50000/other/syslinux
15. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/culture/logotypes.git/tree
17. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packages/extra.git/tree/iceweasel-esr/PKGBUILD?id=7baa45bf555a3e2997a5d5f2ec20e2de462f6518#n152
18. https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/packages/extra.git/tree/iceweasel-esr/libre.patch?id=7baa45bf555a3e2997a5d5f2ec20e2de462f6518
19. https://www.hyperbola.info/packages/extra/any/libretools
--
belette

[Luke Shumaker]

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[André Silva]

Post by Luke Shumaker
I can't speak as to why the Hyperbola team didn't include the links in
their version.

Fixed [0], seems i've forgot add those links. Thank you for let us know.

[0]:https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:main:social_contract&do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1521803035&rev2%5B1%5D=1526302004&difftype=sidebyside